We know what Russia is doing and how it does it, EU intelligence centre chief tells Euronews

Earlier this year, aft 9 years astatine nan caput of Croatian intelligence, Daniel Markić was appointed head of nan European Union Intelligence and Situation Centre (EU INTCEN), nan closest point nan 27-member bloc has to a European intelligence service.

Reporting to nan EU overseas argumentation main Kaja Kallas, INTCEN monitors what happens wrong and extracurricular nan EU and provides analyses and alerts to institutions, decision-makers, and personnel states regarding security, defence, and counterterrorism.

While successful Lisbon to return portion successful a convention celebrating nan 30th day of nan Strategic Intelligence and Defence Service (SIED), Markić gave an exclusive question and reply to Nascer do SOL and Euronews successful which he identifies nan main threats to nan information of nan EU, practice betwixt intelligence services and explains what he sees arsenic nan early of nan sector.

Euronews: What is INTCEN's domiciled successful nan EU?

Daniel Markić: For nan past 20 years, INTCEN has been a benignant of intelligence fusion centre for nan European Union. It utilized to beryllium portion of nan (European) Council, but pinch nan different reforms of nan institutions, it is now portion of nan European External Action Service (EEAS).

The group who activity astatine INTCEN travel mostly from nan information and intelligence services of nan personnel states, and we activity very intimately pinch subject intelligence (EUMS Intelligence Directorate) nether an informal umbrella called SIAC, Single Intelligence and Analysis Capacity — and it useful very well.

But now we deliberation that what is being done successful position of intelligence whitethorn not beryllium enough.

Euronews: Why is that?

Markić: We request to do more. The EU realised a fewer years agone that it is not conscionable a world governmental and economical actor, but that it is perchance a information actor. In 2020, nan first threat study was carried out, namely by SIAC.

It was revised successful 2022 and we did a 3rd type a fewer months ago. This proves that nan EU was trying to deliberation astir threats successful bid to find solutions to woody pinch them.

Euronews: Are you talking astir civilian aliases subject threats? Because erstwhile we deliberation astir subject threats we besides deliberation astir NATO.

Markić: Globally, astir each nan threats. And past there's nan celebrated strategical document, nan (2022) Strategic Compass, which erstwhile again describes nan EU's capacity. That's wherever we find a mini portion of nan archive that refers to SIAC arsenic nan only introduction constituent for strategical intelligence successful nan EU.

We person to retrieve that, successful position of intelligence, for personnel states location is an important article successful nan Treaty connected European Union, 4.2, which says that nationalist information is simply a competence of states. Knowing each this, we person to find ways to springiness more. The EU needs more. And nan personnel states are consenting to springiness more.

Euronews: Are they?

Markić: Yes, they are.

Euronews: Has intelligence sharing ever been a delicate issue?

Markić: It is sensitive. But it exists and it useful very well. I opportunity this not only arsenic head of INTCEN, but I've worked for nan past 9 years arsenic head of a nationalist intelligence and information service. And it works.

But erstwhile there's a emotion that nan services don't do capable very often, it's because they don't pass enough. We request to make intelligence much visible.

But to adhd to what I said earlier, everything is being done, and evidently it has go much than a necessity erstwhile we look astatine nan threats, nan astir evident of which is February 2022 and Russia's sadistic onslaught connected Ukraine.

Euronews: Do you judge that nan onslaught has changed nan measurement intelligence gathering and sharing is seen successful nan EU's decision-making process?

Markić: Absolutely. And 1 of nan champion examples is not needfully successful nan EU. US intelligence and nan UK intelligence organization person started communicating accusation publicly, which is an important change. This is thing that personnel states and nan EU person a batch to study from.

Euronews: This was besides an effort astatine pre-emptive action. As if to opportunity to nan different broadside "we cognize you're doing this, truthful don't do it".

Markić: Exactly.

Euronews: And it didn't work.

Markić: It didn't activity but... I work together pinch you. And location are galore different opinions successful nan intelligence community. It's nary secret. Many EU services were convinced that (the full-scale invasion) wouldn't happen.

When it did, galore group were surprised. But if we effort to bespeak connected nan messages sent by our Baltic friends, they told us. We conscionable had to perceive to them.

(Russian President Vladimir) Putin was very clear successful each his speeches. And nan aforesaid goes for different parts of Europe, for example, successful nan Western Balkans.

People for illustration Putin are truthful proud of their intelligence. He's truthful proud of his ain past successful nan concealed services.

In nan EU, intelligence is simply a spot of a soiled word. When you talk astir intelligence, you susurration it. You shouldn't whisper.

When you meet nan caput of intelligence, you don't person to meet him astatine night. You person a normal meeting.

The concealed services will ne'er beryllium nan main instrumentality of immoderate governmental decision-maker, but they are 1 of nan important circumstantial devices he has. And I deliberation EU decision-makers person to person it too. So we person to find ways to get nan intelligence to them.

It's important to statement that, moreover successful nan European institutions, superb group are moving connected information issues. But intelligence is simply a very circumstantial area. Specific techniques are used, circumstantial intends of obtaining intelligence.

Euronews: Which INTCEN can't do.

Markić: Yes. But we person a very beardown organization of 27 personnel states. One of nan specificities of information and intelligence successful nan EU - and possibly that's why it's a spot difficult astatine times - is that location are large differences.

When you look astatine immoderate institution successful nan personnel states, nan ministries, they are akin aliases nan aforesaid successful each country.

The Ministry of Agriculture successful Portugal is akin to nan 1 successful Germany. Or nan Defence Ministry. The information and intelligence organization is different. They each person different ineligible frameworks.

Euronews: And different capacities and possibilities. There are things that nan French tin do that nan Portuguese can't.

Markić: Exactly. But we person nan expertise to harness nan champion of each work for nan communal good. That's nan domiciled of INTCEN and SIAC.

When I was caput of my nationalist agency, I worked straight for nan president and nan premier minister, which is not easy, arsenic you tin imagine. But for me, if we person intelligence, it's to act, to usage it aliases to react.

Having intelligence conscionable for nan database is useless. It's nan aforesaid successful nan EU. We request to springiness nan intelligence to nan decision-maker, specifically to EU High Representative for Foreign Policy Kaja Kallas, but besides to (Commission) President von der Leyen and (Council) President António Costa.

All these actors request to person nan correct data, astatine nan correct time, during nan decision-making process. The EU is simply a beardown actor.

Euronews: How do you enactment erstwhile location is simply a conflict of intelligence sent by different countries?

Markić: In position of intelligence, it's not thing that happens often. We whitethorn person different positions, a different governmental decision.

But successful position of earthy information, it doesn't hap very often. What's more, nan EU has a specificity. Intelligence successful nan EU is not arsenic system arsenic it is successful NATO, particularly since NATO's betterment of its intelligence services 10 years ago.

But we person an advantage. We don't needfully request intelligence to beryllium agreed upon by each states. We request to beryllium capable to usage nan accusation provided by a service, a organization aliases a group of services and utilise it. And that's what we're doing.

Euronews: Can you measure whether location were differences successful nan measurement intelligence was viewed earlier and aft nan Russian penetration of Ukraine?

Markić: There was decidedly a change. And, erstwhile again, going backmost to nan truth that nan intelligence is location for each to spot and nan request to utilise it.

This aggression, which is not conscionable a war, but a semipermanent civilizational shock, has changed nan measurement we deliberation astir intelligence and usage intelligence.

Euronews: The Niinistö study connected strengthening Europe's civilian and defence preparedness and readiness advocated nan request to fortify intelligence sharing.

Markić: In nan study you'll find a conception connected SIAC. The study was a awesome effort to find a caller solution that analysed nan caller threats. One of nan problems was that nan services were not visible enough. And that's nan problem.

And that's why, successful my connection pinch each nan services, arsenic I did yesterday successful your outer service, I talked astir nan request to pass more.

My service, erstwhile I took complete 9 years ago, was very good, but very closed, without communication, truthful nan image wasn't very good. We changed that done different initiatives. We made a nationalist report, we sometimes communicated pinch nan media. I deliberation that's what nan organization should do successful Europe.

So erstwhile again, nan constituent will ever beryllium for nan decision-maker. But nan truth that we co-operate, that we person intelligence - it's not conscionable nan different side, immoderate they do, we tin do moreover amended - we person to pass astir it.

Euronews: Do you ideate that INTCEN will beryllium a benignant of European Intelligence Service?

Markić: It's difficult for maine to say. Once again, I'd spell backmost to nan celebrated Article 4.2 of nan EU Treaty. I don't deliberation it will hap because doing intelligence, particularly abroad, requires a batch of elements successful summation to know-how.

In nan EU environment, it would beryllium difficult. The EU institutions are very transparent, arsenic they should be, but we still request to raise consciousness of information issues. Organising missions for illustration that from location successful nan EU seems difficult to me.

Euronews: We've heard a batch astir strengthening European defence, but we haven't heard astir intelligence.

Markić: There was an inaugural to fortify intelligence, which was started 3 years agone by nan personnel states, and we are moving connected it.

We created a associated archive connected strengthening nan SIAC, a associated archive by nan High Representative and nan states. So location is an initiative.

It's little visible because defence requires a batch of money. In position of intelligence, we request much money, but you can't compare.

Euronews: What do you spot arsenic nan main threats to European security?

Markić: First of all, I'll return to nan taxable of Russian aggression: it's a conflict of civilisations, because we person nan aggression itself, we person Russian hybrid activities, moreover successful EU personnel states, which tin sometimes beryllium kinetic activities.

Euronews: Sabotage?

Markić: Among others.

Euronews: What kind?

Markić: We've reported connected activities successful Lithuania, nan packages that exploded successful nan UK, immoderate assassination attempts and different activities. Perhaps we thin to hide astir cyber-attacks successful nan first place.

The Russians specialise successful cyber-attacks, on pinch their criminal groups. And espionage. In Brussels we effort to punctual everyone of nan value of information and that espionage exists.

Euronews: State aliases industrial?

Markić: All kinds, depending connected nan actor. We person Russia, but besides different actors. And erstwhile we look astatine what happened a fewer days agone successful India and Pakistan, what has been happening successful Africa, we tin spot that location are much and much threats.

I haven't mentioned nan Middle East, but it's evidently important. And I can't thief reasoning astir nan cognition that nan Russians are carrying retired successful Ukraine and nan guidance of nan world, nan EU, nan US: it's evident that galore actors person been watching everything for nan past 3 years and whitethorn beryllium tempted to do something.

Euronews: They mightiness deliberation that if nan Russians tin do it, truthful tin they?

Markić: Definitely. And location are truthful galore conflicts, truthful galore tensions, that nan truth that (you don't know) who nan main character is who tin extremity them is besides an element.

Euronews: Do you besides person a domiciled successful combating disinformation and propaganda?

Markić: Yes, we're not nan only ones, location are different organisations successful nan EU that are moving connected this.

We had a caller lawsuit successful Portugal during nan blackout. In little than an hr location was clone news being dispersed successful WhatsApp groups and connected societal media attributing nan powerfulness nonaccomplishment to a Russian cyber-attack.

There is simply a inclination to make excessively galore attributions and make Putin retired to beryllium a existent superman. We person a clear vision, again moving together pinch nan 27 communities, of what Russia is doing and really it is doing it.

So it's bully to beryllium clear and not effort to find Russia down each stone. Putin would emotion that. He would person to utilise very fewer resources and usage only societal media to show his strength.

Euronews: I noticed that you didn't mention coercion arsenic a threat.

Markić: Because of this acute crisis, we don't talk astir terrorism, but nan conflict against coercion is 1 of nan main tasks of nan information services. It ever remains a priority, but immoderate crises are now much visible.

Euronews: But do you judge that groups for illustration nan alleged Islamic State group aliases Al Qaeda still person immoderate power connected nan hearts and minds of immoderate group successful our community?

Markić: Definitely. And successful that sense, erstwhile these issues are little successful nan media, possibly location are less young group tempted to travel successful nan footsteps of these movements. But it does beryllium and I tin show you that nan intelligence services successful nan EU are progressive connected this topic.

Euronews: How do you spot nan anticipation of nan return to Europe of overseas violent fighters and their families who are still successful camps and prisons successful Syria and Iraq?

Markić: It's a very important issue. It remains to beryllium seen what nan US will do successful Syria, what will hap to nan prisons.

Euronews: Because location are still thousands of group successful Syria.

Markić: Exactly. What Turkey is going to do. There are galore doubts, but we're each moving connected it.

Euronews: Should location beryllium a communal position among nan personnel states?

Markić: I deliberation we each person a very akin position.

Euronews: Some countries person already repatriated people. Others, for illustration Portugal, haven't.

Markić: Yes, but nan quality successful numbers betwixt countries tin beryllium enormous. Some countries are overmuch much concerned. Not conscionable because of nan number of combatants, but besides because of nan women and children.

Euronews: If they stay successful nan camps, could these children beryllium nan adjacent procreation of terrorists?

Markić: Definitely. I'd conscionable opportunity that because I wouldn't want to springiness a governmental constituent of view. But successful position of security, what could hap to them is simply a large question. Not only if they stay, but moreover if they return to Europe.